Home › Forums › Bulldog Forum: Ottawa, National And International Debate › I Hate To Say It But I Agree With Donald Trump
February 12, 2018 at 8:38 AM #745249
No doubt The Donald is saying this because of his own malfeasance, but outing people for alleged sexual abuse lacks process.
It has taken millions of years to get to the point where alleged crimes go to an impartial courtroom to be adjudicated.
Now the media and the public decide who is guilty or not of sexual abuse and the accused, rightly or wrongly, pays the price of reputation and employment.
This is civilization taking a big step backwards.
We now live in a sexual McCarthy era. In the 1950s if you were accused, guilty or not, of being a Communist, you lost your job and were blacklisted.
In 2018, if you are accused of being a sexual abuser, guilty of not, you lose your reputation, job and the opportunity to get future employment.
This is not to condone sexual abuse, far from it. But justice in this issue is that of the mob.February 12, 2018 at 5:42 PM #745269
Well … the victims of said abuse have been literally and figuratively badly hurt by their abusers and by the justice system for generations.
When the system doesn’t work for a group, eventually other means will come into play.
As to Herr Drumpf’s bathos … what price has he paid for the allegations he’s been mentioned in? Zero.February 12, 2018 at 5:51 PM #745271
I understand your sentiment and those of women in general, at least I hope I do.
And most certainly the #metoo movement has raised my consciousness and those of other men and women markedly.
I’ve been surprised by many of the people outed by the movement … and shocked.
But without process, the veneer of civilization is very thin. It’s thin at the best of times.
Everyone is entitled to a day in court and due process.
We saw it in the ’50s with McCarthy when good people were hurt very badly by allegations, many of which were proven dead wrong.
For what it is worth, I identify with the concern of those who have been sexually abused, men and women.
We need a better way of dealing with the problem.
To be convicted in the court of public opinion is rule of the mob.
kgrayFebruary 17, 2018 at 10:40 AM #745600
While I agree that acknowledging anything that The Donald says is true is painful, I too would have to agree with him (and Hitler) if he uttered “The sky is blue”.
Nevertheless: when it comes to sexual abuse, assault, and rape, the system is broken. “Due process” is a nice concept, but it fails miserably in the world of “he said, he said”. Canada has had its Harvey Weinstein moment: Jian Ghomeshi. The latter got acquitted despite being a jerk, and he got acquitted because of he had a smart lawyer who knew the system enough to inject enough “reasonable doubt”.
The system has, in general, failed rape victims.
What are women to do? One solution is the #metoo movement and its associated vigilantism.
When the police and lawyers of Gotham City fail, Batman has to come to the rescue.February 18, 2018 at 1:12 PM #745669
All points made so far have been good except for one thing, and Louis has come closest to the real point.
Society has been dealing with this issue for years, for decades, forever, all poking around the outer edges of the cloud. The recent explosion of accusations, etc. show it’s time to dive into this problem and get serious about solving it (or at least beginning to do so).
To solve a problem the first step is to state in clear terms what the problem is, the second step is to determine a desired outcome, and the third is to determine the root cause(s). So . . . now who’s going to get the ball rolling. All I hear at this point is talk, talk, talk.February 18, 2018 at 1:18 PM #745671
For what it is worth, I’ve heard that one of the major cases of alleged sexual misconduct is not true.
The accusers are anonymous and the point is to bring a public figure down for political reasons.
Politicos will use whatever it takes to get someone.
In the New McCarthyism of today, accusations become fact and politicians are using this on political enemies.
Welcome to politics. I thought this was going to happen and now it has.
Look for it to be used on other political enemies.
The court of public shaming, rather than due process, is in.