Home › Forums › Bulldog Forum: Ottawa, National And International Debate › Ont. PC Incompetence Or Gross Incompetence?
This topic contains 11 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by sisco farraro 3 months ago.
March 11, 2018 at 5:29 AM #746533
Ron BennMarch 11, 2018 at 6:38 AM #746545
Ken GrayKeymasterMarch 11, 2018 at 1:45 PM #746560
For a number of years the Ontario Liberal party has done everything possible to move Ontario, once the wealthiest province in Canada, into a downward spiral.
Over the past five years or so, the PCs have lost their way and appear to be throwing suctioned darts at the ceiling hoping to hit a target of some sort or at least hoping one will stick. The NDP are invisible until election time when voters catch a brief glimpse of them as we try to determine what exactly their platform is. Right now, the Trillium Party is looking like a good bet to have more members than expected elected to the Ontario legislature in the upcoming provincial election and perhaps win it. They certainly wouldn’t be a worse choice than any of the three parties who all seem lost.March 11, 2018 at 3:24 PM #746566
Sisco, Sisco, Sisco. Get all the info before commenting.
Yes, sorry about that. I was unaware of the tantrum that Christine Elliott threw after the PC leadership convention had concluded. My next comment, will certainly not be overly popular but, as Kurt Vonnegut Jr would say, so it goes.
For some time now women have been calling for equality in our society and have done so in a number of different manners, some creative, some convincing, some not (not all approaches work after all). In my opinion Christine Elliott’s behaviour at the conclusion of the PC leadership race was reprehensible and has been a setback for women in terms of credibility. We have all suffered through things in our lives that we don’t feel are fair. And yes, Christine, men as well as women. Either you’re part of the team or you’re not. Obviously you’re not. Elliott did not win the nomination as party leader last time she ran so I think there’s a pretty obvious message here that she’s not getting.
In my opinion it’s time for the PCs to cut Elliott loose and let her run as an independent in the next provincial election. In other words, fire her.March 11, 2018 at 3:30 PM #746569
What totally baffled me is why they didn’t come out at regular intervals between 3 and 7 pm to give people an update on what was going on.
Did they really think that leaving hundreds of people in a room with no information but lots of time to speculate could ever be a good idea? Are they so out of touch that they didn’t know of the suspicions and the conspiracy theories that were already circulating? The icing on the cake was when they finally came out to say basically thanks for dropping in, we aren’t going to give you any answers but we’ve come to tell you to get out of here.
At the very least, they should have had the courtesy to come out before 6 and tell people that they were in the process of verifying some ballots and that, if they weren’t done by 7, the room booking was over and they might have to send people home. With that warning, people wouldn’t have gotten the double whammy of being told we aren’t telling you anything and your welcome is worn out. They couldn’t have more effectively told the members in the room that they weren’t part of the process and were disposable. If you didn’t feel before Saturday that there were different strata within the party, they certainly gave that message then.
The “In Crowd” was certainly not the people in that room or watching around the province.March 11, 2018 at 3:58 PM #746575
Tantrum? That’s a pretty loaded word.
Do you really think that Ford, Mulroney or Granic Allen wouldn’t have asked for a recount when the difference was a few hundred votes out of 64,000 plus? How does her gender have anything to do with that?
Are you aware that there are people sitting in legislatures across this country who only have that seat because of a recount, at least one of whom is an Ontario MPP? In most, if not all, Canadian election rules, there’s a provision that if the difference in vote totals is less than X votes, there is an automatic recount. There is also a higher number at which another candidate can request a recount. Vote-counting isn’t a perfect art and mistakes are made. Recounts are a safeguard against the electoral process being subverted, intentionally or otherwise, by errors.
In this situation, we know that there were irregularities in the process. People didn’t get their confirmation letters, others couldn’t get the online set-up to work, others didn’t get working PINs, others received things but after the deadline for the next step. Given all the screw-ups, wouldn’t you want to be sure that the people who were able to make it through those steps and actually vote were guaranteed that their votes were attributed to the correct riding and counted appropriately?
This isn’t just about Elliot but also about the rights of the people who voted for a leadership candidate.March 11, 2018 at 6:25 PM #746581
“The Ontario PC’s can’t organize a one person parade on a cordoned off street” — my thoughts exactly. With such a crew, how can anyone trust them with governing the Province of Ontario?
The unanimous position of the four candidates against a “carbon tax” speaks volumes about their incoherence.
It may be unpopular to say so in this forum, but the Libs under Wynn have done many things right (as well as wrong), both large and small.
The Trillium Party? No, thank you.
You never hear much about the NDP but that may be in part due to media bias. Horvath was quite sensible, however, in a debate about democracy recently. I personally have long ago decided against voting for second-best or least-bad and am a paid-up member of the Green Party (both Ontario and federally). My riding happens to be so solidly Liberal that exercising this option is easy.
So if the PCs now put Doug Ford forward, will Ontarians do a Trump? I sure hope not.March 11, 2018 at 8:24 PM #746592
Ron BennMarch 11, 2018 at 10:54 PM #746601
Hot little discussion. Good. Reading the comments made above prove to me the disarray into which the PCs in Ontario have fallen, eg. if they can’t organize a leadership convention effectively how will they ever be able to manage a province. A party that was once strong and united with leaders who had a vision is now lost, hoping for a miracle to occur. Right now they don’t need to in-fight, they need to develop a solid strategy, and they don’t have much time.
As for the word “tantrum”? I worked in the private sector my entire career, the last 10 or so years at a decision-maker’s level. In this role I had to strategize with other decision-makers. Sometimes the ideas put forth in our meetings were terrible and worse yet, sometimes these ideas were adopted as solutions we were going to move forward with. Whether I liked the chosen direction or not, when I walked out of the boardroom part of my job was to support it because I was a part of a management team. If I strenuously opposed the decision, there were ways for me to express my discontent that did not involve telling the people who reported to me and others how unhappy I was. (In retrospect maybe I should have used the word “pout”.)
The Ontario PCs have made their choice. Right or wrong, they now have to regroup and win an election. They know the election will be held in June. Their focus should be on working together, and not fighting in court. If they choose the latter they will, once again, lose the election.March 12, 2018 at 5:38 PM #746628
The VoterMarch 12, 2018 at 5:41 PM #746627
I understand how you arrived at your position but an election for party leader isn’t a management board meeting.
I’ll repeat my question – do you honestly believe that Ford, Granic Allen and Mulroney wouldn’t have taken the same steps to query the results when the difference between first and second place was less than 400 out of 64,000 votes cast?
Are you aware that Ford, before the votes were even cast, said he planned to contest the result? Obviously, as the winner, he’s unsurprisingly abandoned that position pretty quickly.
It’s standard operating practice in the political world to have recounts in close elections.
The party has stated that more than 1,200 ballots were potentially mis-allocated. Those are, of course, only the ones they caught. If there are roughly two per cent of all ballots that are identified as problematic, you can be sure there are others.
That’s on top of the people whose ballots don’t exist because of the problems with registering to vote. They have about 190,000 members of which only 64,000, about 1/3, voted. That might not be unusual were it not that many of those members joined during the leadership campaign and could be expected to be interested enough in that process to vote.
Again, I’ll emphasize that this isn’t just an issue of concern to Christine Elliot and her supporters but for PC members across the province who are entitled to know that their vote counted.March 14, 2018 at 12:11 PM #746752
I’ve been away for a day so excuse my non-response to your last couple of comments.
Once again, the points you have presented are all good. I think that overall the entire leadership convention was a fiasco for the provincial PCs. They showed they lack basic administrative skills, but worst of all, they lack unity.
This has been a problem for some time which, in the past, they blamed on Tim Hudak. Will they pull things together before the June election? Unlikely. What should have provided a positive feeling about the party for voters didn’t really pan out for them, and that’s too bad because timing of the convention was excellent and could have worked in their favour.
I think the best we can all hope for at this point is that Kathleen Wynne doesn’t win a majority government once again.