Transcript: The Chat Sound And The Fury


Here’s a transcript of Tuesday evening’s Bulldog Live Chat on What’s Wrong At Ottawa City Hall?

Many thanks to the Bulldog Commenting All-Stars who participated:

WHAT\’S WRONG AT OTTAWA CITY HALL: Bulldog Live Chat : Welcome to the Bulldog Live Chat
Ken Gray : Welcome aboard. Please use your name or a pseudonym to identify yourself. Using the default name makes following the chat difficult. Thank you.
Ken Gray : What has created the culture of failure at Ottawa City Hall? I’m ready to go.
Kosmo : No accountability and incompetency.
Ron Benn : There are so many layers of cultural challenges at city hall.
The Voter : Your post about Watson’s charm had me thinking about how he was like a snake-charmer who held his followers in thrall to do his bidding.
Ken Gray : Well here’s what I think has happened. Council is not showing any urge for oversight. And staff has got out of control.
Kosmo : We discussed this a few years ago, the people running for office shouldn’t need the job. Public office should need the people
Ron Benn : There are the rank and file. There is the bloated middle management layer. The senior levels are so toxic that no outsider dares to apply for a job.
Ron Benn : Then there is council.
Ron Benn : What these layers have in common is a lack of willingness to accept responsibility for their failures.
John : Doesn’t this sort of corporate culture start at the top? Fish rots from the head? Can change happen with a new Mayor?
Ken Gray : It’s selfishness. Staff wants what’s best for staff and council wants what’s best for councillors. Somehow the people are left out.
Ron Benn : John, for change to occur it has to start at the top. Organizational Behaviour 101.
Ron Benn : Once upon a time, the concept of public service was to serve the public. Now it is the public serves the city.
Ken Gray : They can’t get managers to come into city hall because it is career suicide.
Kosmo : Quality people only need apply
The Voter : A senior management position is seen not as “public service” but an audition for your post-City job.
Ken Gray : Tell me how many people are left there who knew full well what was going on at the failed LRT and didn’t say anything. People at city hall have matured in a sick culture. A self-serving culture. Now they can’t get rid of it.
Ron Benn : When the position of City Manager for a city of 1 million people becomes available, one would expect a lot of applicants. The Asst City Manager of a city of 500,000 should be all over this opportunity. Except no one from outside who was even remotely qualified applied. The Exec Search firm was embarrassed. Not for themselves. For the city.
Ken Gray : Who would want to work there?
Ron Benn : There is a protocol around the council chamber. Do not mention the LRT. Avoid it like the plague.
Ken Gray : That won’t fix the problem.
Ken Gray : It’s all words and no action. Three years and no derailment root cause. Come on.
Ron Benn : All of the above is symptomatic of an organization that lacks maturity. A lack of maturity in its leadership role (elected and C suite occupants).
Ken Gray : They watched how Watson did it and adopted it. All public relations but little substance. Charm rather than sound administration.
The Voter : You can only find something if you are actually looking for it. Does anyone really want to know the truth? Which they would then have to deal with.
Ken Gray : Jim Watson had one thing to get absolutely right … LRT. And he didn’t do it … and then the minions and the mayor tried to cover up.
Ron Benn : Agreed Voter. Mgmt 250 – never look for a problem unless you are prepared to deal with it.
Ken Gray : How many people would suffer if the truth came out?
Ron Benn : Ken, there were a lot of senior through middle managers (I exclude the rank and file) who knew that council was not getting the correct information. And they chose not to speak up. That speaks volumes about the culture during the Watson years … and now.
Kosmo : only people suffering comes from the using the LRT
Ken Gray : The place needs a new broom from the outside or the province to appoint a commissioner to root out the bad elements.
The Voter : Think of all those nice pensions or future employment opportunities that would be lost if everyone had to face the music!
Ken Gray : It was message. Not substance. “on-time and on-budget”. Lies.
Kosmo : The Voter you bring up a good point , do councillors over stay cuz they don’t have other opportunities outside of city politics.
Ken Gray : Rail was so bad city hall couldn’t cover up anymore. It was too big.
Ron Benn : Kosmo, for many councillors, this is the best job (in terms of salary and perqs) that they will ever have.
Kosmo : I agree Mr. Benn
Kosmo : And it’s a shame
Ken Gray : Some of them, on this council, are not too bright. They are terrified of losing the next election.
Ken Gray : Some of those people have vital jobs. Many simply don’t want to do the homework.
The Voter : It’s very scary to contemplate all the things they were able to cover up. It’s hard to hide a derailment but what is there that we don’t know.
Ron Benn : Some councillors are not prepared to not be councillor. Last summer I ran into Rick Chiarelli on the street. I asked him how he was enjoying retirement. He responded that he wasn’t. Not at all.
Ken Gray : I notice the AG wants an oversight body for housing. That should be council. Where is it?
Kosmo : Where are they now … from Ottawa City Councillor to who knows where.
Ron Benn : The reporting structure of Ottawa’s AG is part of the problem. She presents her work plan to the Audit Committee. They edit and approve.
Ken Gray : It was interesting Voter that Happy Town News told the media they couldn’t take photos of light rail. That was naive. Every person has a camera on their phone and a Twitter account. They couldn’t control the message on rail. If the train doesn’t show, how can you cover that up.
Kosmo : Ottawa is suffering from “crisis fatigue”
Ken Gray : Kosmo … you can’t throw a brick without hitting a crisis.
The Voter : And some of those who approve her workplan are the foxes and they are being allowed to watch the chicken coop.
Kosmo : LRT
Ron Benn : That can lead to not approving AG projects into matters that are politically embarrassing. Such as the Trillium Extension contract. Or the decision to sole source Lansdowne 1.0. Or the Confed Line LRT execution. Or …
Kosmo : LRT
Ken Gray : How could the AG allow the Trillium procurement to fall off her workplan? She knew the media would see … as least The Bulldog would.
Ken Gray : How bad are the things that went on with that procurement that city officials are willing to look like fools because there’s no audit.
Ron Benn : The AG does not have last say on her work plan. The Audit Committee does. As I mentioned earlier, councillors talking about the LRT is verboten.
The Voter : Did the AG get the message that things would not be well if she looked at Trillium?
Ken Gray : I wonder who is most nervous. … the feds, the province or the city.
Ron Benn : Voter, the AG would have got that message when she submitted her draft work plan.
The Voter : Exactly!
Ron Benn : The feds and the province can point to the city as being responsible for the failure.
Ken Gray : The message was to make the audit slowly disappear.
Ken Gray : What’s wrong with a little truth?
Kosmo : She would have gotten the message waiting 4 hours at Tunney’s Pasture for the next train
Ken Gray : The people at city hall were simply not capable of building LRT.
Ron Benn : Council can’t handle the truth (apologies to Nicholson).
Ron Benn : Kosmo, if she is waiting for the next west bound LRT out of Tunney’s, she has another couple of years.
Ken Gray : The political damage that would occur if that audit was done properly could be amazing.
The Voter : Ah but Ken, who’s truth should we follow? At Ottawa City Hall, the truth definitely doesn’t set you free. It just creates problems.
Ken Gray : Good point, Voter.
Ron Benn : Drove by Carleton U yesterday, early afternoon. The parking lots near Bronson were full. Full of students’ cars. The same students who get a “free” bus pass. “Free” being that they paid for it whether they use it or not.
Kosmo : The City of Ottawa “ where we strive to be average”
Ken Gray : Average would have got us a light rail that worked.
Kosmo : Never said we were average… Struve to be average
Kosmo : Strive
Ken Gray : How do you screw up such a known technology. Calgary did it flawlessly by not being ambitious.
The Voter : Average? Kosmo, you set your sights very high!
Ron Benn : The Trillium Line extension is late. The question is why? If the problems were between South Keys (former end point) and South Riverside, they could open the north section that flows through Carleton.
Kosmo : I hear the night Mayor job application is closed
Ken Gray : They’ve been testing that thing for months.
Ron Benn : Jim Watson, in his 2 page reputation rehab piece in the Citizen, acknowledged that the LRT was more complex than he thought.
Ron Benn : Watson should have left the project management to the professionals. The engineers, LRT specialists, train manufacturers, switch/control systems experts.
Ken Gray : What does Watson know about lrt or much anything else. He knows politics very well but little else.
Ron Benn : Kosmo, will the Night Mayor look like a snake charmer?
Ken Gray : Yes putting that line down Rideau sure worked well. That was a political decision, not an engineering one.
Ken Gray : I bet the Night Mayor will be very good at writing long reports.
Ken Gray : The last organization in the world I want fiddling with the night economy is the City of Ottawa.
Ron Benn : Question that was never answered: did Cadillac Fairview (owner of the Rideau Centre) make a financial contribution to the LRT budget to get the route to pass down Rideau instead of the original plan of along the bridge at the back of the building?
Ken Gray : They’ve just set up an economic strategy (in very broad terms). That should paralyze the private sector for a few years.
Ron Benn : Recall that the LRT had to be launched by mid-Sept 2019 because Jim Watson was scheduled to go to Amsterdam to examine their night life economy.
Ken Gray : I don’t know any business moves by CF.
Ken Gray : Amsterdam … scary.
Ken Gray : I’ve seen its night life and they can keep it.
Ron Benn : Back to the culture at city hall. The insertion of confidentiality clauses in contracts flies in the face of an open, transparent and responsible government.
The Voter : Both Council and staff had access throughout the process to very competent advisors and they chose not to use them preferring to go with their own “wisdom”. I was around from the time when they were looking into the whole concept of trains and hadn’t made the decision between light and heavy rail. They would have been able to go back to the people who shepherded them through those decisions but they chose not to.
Ken Gray : Sure does.
Ken Gray : You can be sure developers had huge input into the route.
Ken Gray : Look what’s happening in Westboro now.
Ken Gray : It’s a highrise jungle.
Ron Benn : The confidentiality clause concept has been used to prevent councillors from asking questions. Like when Deans and Chiarelli were tipped off about the Trillium Stage 2 award. That the winning proponent (SNC led consortium) did not pass the technical requirements, twice.
Ken Gray : How bad was it. When did staff answer the question. in the dead of summer.
Ken Gray : They didn’t have a good answer so they chose to bury it.
Ken Gray : It’s all about atmospherics, not substance.
Ron Benn : OC Transpo is a mess. Not just the LRT. Routes that don’t go where riders want to go. Back to the Carleton U parking lots. Why are they full? Because OC Transpo views their student bus passes as free money?
Ken Gray : If I were Carleton U, I be some kind of angry about how their students are being so badly treated by OC Transpo.
Ron Benn : My niece, when she was going to Carleton’s School of Architecture, eventually bought a car, rather than suffer the challenges presented by OC Transpo.
Ken Gray : What have the transportation problems cost the university in money and students.
Ron Benn : A 20-25 minute drive, or a 60-75 minute commute on two buses, one LRT and another bus.
The Voter : But, Ron, don’t councillors have a legal obligation, a fiduciary duty, to have the info when they vote? When they all voted without being allowed to read the reports, it was clear that they were miles from managing the project never mind doing it well. Thinking back to that famous Mulroney/Turner exchange we’ve all seen again this week “You, sir, had a choice. You could have said ‘no’!”
Ken Gray : When I was commuting from Westboro to downtown by the transitway, it was 27 minutes from my door to the Citizen bureau door.
The Voter : And that’s not just LRT. Think Lansdowne as well.
Ron Benn : Bang on Voter. All they have to do is send a report back as incomplete. Do it during a meeting. Embarrassment is a great motivator. Not a great HR tool, but a great motivator.
Ron Benn : Voter, Lansdowne 2.0 is a prime example of political decision making. Don’t look at any evidence that might not be supportive.
Ken Gray : Here’s the problem with Lansdowne. The new Lansdowne doesn’t solve the old Lansdowne. That’s because it’s unsolvable. Traffic. Wrong stores. Poor transit. It didn’t work, it doesn’t work and it will never work.
Ken Gray : But we’re still pouring in money.
Ron Benn : There is a concept to the effect of “What evidence could I present to you that you would consider? If the answer is nothing, then let’s just go our separate ways.” That was Lansdowne 2.0 for 16 members of council.
Ron Benn : But Ken. Think of the affordable housing. Oh, yeah, they got rid of that.
Ken Gray : I’m no shopping mall expert but it was obvious this thing wouldn’t work from the beginning.
Ron Benn : Have you walked through some of the bricks and mortar malls. Rideau, Bayshore, Carlingwood all have significant vacancies.
Ken Gray : Council doesn’t understand Lansdowne. It doesn’t work. Move on. The people have voted with their feet.
Ken Gray : If something doesn’t work, stop doing it.
Ken Gray : But then a day doesn’t go by that Watson is not told how happy people are about Lansdowne.
The Voter : The other thing is the use of the hammer of time. If we don’t approve it today, we’ll lose something whether that’s money or something else. The electric buses are a good example. They had to be approved “this minute” or the money would expire. Then of course, we found out that what was put forward as a grant was in fact, a loan guarantee.
Ken Gray : City hall and Allan Hubley did their best to make that look like free money. It was a loan. More debt on something that is very unlikely to work.
Ron Benn : Money is complicated Ken. More complicated than whether Moodie Drive is part of Kanata.
The Voter : LOL, Ron
Ken Gray : City hall thinks its very much smarter than the rest of us. It’s not. All it has is ambition, PR and failure.
Ken Gray : What! Moodie Drive is a part of Kanata? I wonder what Aubrey Moodie would say.?
Ron Benn : One thing working to the benefit of city hall is the deterioration of the local media. The Citizen is pretty much copy/paste press releases.
Kosmo : The electric busses will not work on cold weather.
Ken Gray : The culture of investigation has disappeared.
Ron Benn : Ken, it depends on whether your eyeglass prescription has been updated. Depth perception can be such a problem.
Ken Gray : City hall reporting is becoming like sports reporting. Don’t alienate the team.
Ron Benn : I suspect that if Aubrey Moodie met Alan Hubley, he would ask him to fetch a coffee.
Ken Gray : Cause they might cut you off.
Ken Gray : Good one, Ron. And Hubley would get it wrong.
The Voter : Again, they only ask questions to which they actually want the answers. If the answer’s inconvenient, the question doesn’t see the light of day.
Ron Benn : He would get it wrong, and then argue that what he brought was a better choice. Then expect a tip.
Ken Gray : I wonder if it would be on-time and on-budget. I guess the budget is shot with the tip. Oh well.
Ron Benn : Tom Mulcair recently opined that Question Period was a staged event. Theatre. That is what city council meetings look like.
Ken Gray : Bad theatre.
Ron Benn : Stage managed to avoid all controversy. To accept staff reports that they know are incomplete. To ensure that there are a few virtue signals to keep some self interest group happy.
Ken Gray : You know city hall is so bad that it tries to right things with PR that is obviously and brutally wrong. How much lipstick can you put on a pig?
Ken Gray : Maybe that’s we should call the Night Mayor … The Wild Bore.
Kosmo : Staged with bad acting
Ken Gray : At least with the boar, you can make bacon.
Ken Gray : So how do we get out of this city hall mess?
Ken Gray : Elect better people perchance?
Ron Benn : Ken, start by not making it clear that “going along to get along” is unacceptable.
Ken Gray : We need someone to clean house. Someone who knows what they are doling.
Ken Gray : I say appoint a commissioner to clean house.
Ken Gray : The culture at city hall won’t cure itself.
The Voter : I think we need to ask ourselves how realistic it is to ask people who have particular training and life experiences to, post-election, waltz into City Hall and know everything there is to know about a huge array of city operational matters plus have the financial basics that would allow them to oversee a multi-billion dollar budget. It took me years to get even a basic understanding of the city budget and I had good teachers. Are our Councillors qualified and informed enough to do the job we’ve hired them for? Is that what allows staff to feed them what they do?
Ron Benn : Keep pointing out that the LRT Commission report made it clear that council has a statutory obligation of oversight. That not having sufficient information to make a decision is unacceptable. That not addressing this problem (now 18ish months and counting) means that this council is complicit in its failure meet its statutory obligations.
The Voter : Dear god! Don’t use the word “bore” or someone at OC will think it’s time to drill another tunnel!
Ken Gray : LOL Voter
Ron Benn : Voter, you have hit the nail on the head. Too few councillors understand that they don’t know what they should know. That staff are leading them to staff’s preferred solution.
Ken Gray : The mayor was guilty of that in his early days.
Ken Gray : By the way, if you think you are writing to no one, please note that the first hour of this chat had 20,000 page views. People care about this.
Ron Benn : Mayor is not an entry level position. Never has been, never should be. Sutcliffe is Exhibit A.
Ken Gray : Now how to motivate them to do something. And I wonder how many councillors and staffers are listing?
Ken Gray : Listening
Ken Gray : We should really be trying to get good experienced councillors to run for mayor and win.
Ron Benn : In a recent conversation with a councillor, I was told that Bulldog is de rigeur reading at city hall. They are listening, but they are muzzled.
Ken Gray : People such as Gord Hunter when he was down there. Or Diane Holmes.
Ken Gray : It’s good to know they’re reading. But are they doing anything about it?
Ron Benn : Gord Hunter did not suffer fools lightly. Still doesn’t based on his infrequent ventures into public forums (Bulldog, Citizen).
The Voter : We need an externally appointed commissioner who can come in and have the authority to lift the carpets and see what’s been swept under them and to follow the trails of incompetence and miscreance to their source. They have to have budgetary control and be able to override confidentiality clauses and other deliberately manufactured barriers. And they need the time and staff to do a thorough job. Right now we are building incompetence and mismanagement on top of ignorance and sloth. Time to do a thorough top-to-bottom cleanse. Root out the rot and start a clean page. Starting yesterday.
Ron Benn : I suspect for the most part that senior staff, elected officials and their support staff are reading and then developing talking points to deflect.
Ken Gray : Agreed, Voter. The commissioner should also have investigators who are prepared to advise the Crown to lay charges if necessary.
Ron Benn : Voter, I like the way you are thinking. At issue is whether Doug Ford even recalls where Ottawa is. And by the way, where is Lisa McLeod?
Ken Gray : You know, McLeod has an oversight role though she might not know it. The city is a creature of the province and she is the province’s representative for this area. Maybe she should get working on a commissioner if Ford is still listening to her.
Ken Gray : I think staffers reading this are spending their time explaining to anyone listening how wrong The Bulldog and the Bulldog Commenting All-Stars are. It’s called protect your … take it from there.
The Voter : Maybe Doug’s attention can be caught by the amount of money they have already and are continuing to pour into bottomless pits like LRT. I’m very disappointed in Lisa. This is the kind of thing that would have offended her in the past. One of the advantages of her taking this on is that she used to work on Councillors’ Row and she knows it doesn’t have to be like this.
Ken Gray : The municipality governs the municipality for the municipality and its people at city hall.
Ken Gray : One would think that Ford would want a strong woman in cabinet. McLeod should be a strong woman on this and other things. And be sure she is right.
Ron Benn : Mike Patton might have better insight into how much time Doug Ford has for Lisa McLeod. What about Goldie Ghamari, MPP for Carleton.
Ken Gray : Don’t know much about Goldie.
Ron Benn : Ghamari and McLeod are the only PC MPPs in Ottawa. McLeod did something to irritate Ford, and near as I can tell, she isn’t out of the dog house. That leaves Ghamari to raise the topic of Ottawa’s ineffective council.
Ken Gray : Patton would be a good person to be an MPP. Unfortunately, the voters didn’t want him. His videos are extremely well done. It’s hard to make a good argument in a minute but he does it day after day and very well at that.
The Voter : It might be interesting to try and get together a cross-partisan group of MPPs who could take this to Ford as a need seen across the party spectrum. It would also mean that a change of government wouldn’t kill it.
Ken Gray : Are there some senior Conservatives (former) who could convince Ford?
Ken Gray : By the way, I think we are considering treason here. Fun eh?
The Voter : What about pulling Walter Robinson in to try and organize a wider coalition? He’s respected and has the smarts to do it right.
The Voter : Treason? Put me down for that!
Ron Benn : Treason. Not sure. But as a high school teacher once told us “I am not sure whether you are rebels, but you sure are revolting.”
Ken Gray : Ok two treasons and a beer chaser.
Ken Gray : Who gets Robinson to move? I can’t do it. Journalism ethics you know.
Ken Gray : But yeah, Walter would be the guy.
The Voter : FCA? And other community-based groups?
Ken Gray : Sorry but the FCA doesn
Ken Gray : Sorry but the FCA doesn’t want to offend anyone.
Ron Benn : There was a time when we had statesmen and stateswomen. Who rose above the partisan noise and did what they thought was right. Haven’t many of them since Bill Davis and Peter Lougheed supported the repatriation of the Constitution.
Ken Gray : Or David Peterson.
Ken Gray : Where are John Robarts and Jean Luc Pepin? I know Robarts is dead.
Ron Benn : There is a former mayor, from several terms ago, who fits the general concept of a statesman. Someone who did what was right, even if it wasn’t popular. Ken knows who I am talking about.
Ken Gray : Bob Chiarelli
The Voter : Harry Allen?
Ron Benn : Ken, those are names from a different generation. Back when they entered public service after having accomplished something in private practice/business.
Ken Gray : And they brought that experience to the job and performed it well.
Ken Gray : Smart , caring people
Ken Gray : Who is that leader on city council?
The Voter : And people with a deep commitment to the city and seeing it be its best without looking for glory.
Ron Benn : Good question Ken. Who on council had a successful career (stress the term successful) prior to entering politics. Successful in managing a business or organization of substance. Of accomplishing something.
Ken Gray : Or naming snow plows or getting a tattoo of their favourite group?
Ron Benn : Larry O’Brien met that set of criteria. But his one term of mayor was underwhelming. Back to mayor not being an entry level position.
The Voter : At least Larry had the decency to recognize that he didn’t know what he didn’t know.
Ken Gray : I can’t think of anyone. Thus the need for an outside commissioner.
Ron Benn : Agreed Voter. He was accustomed to being a CEO, surrounded himself with competent executives whose expertise and motives he trusted.
Ron Benn : That is not a description for mayor of Ottawa.
Ken Gray : Yes … he could have been so helpful but just didn’t have it in him.
Ron Benn : Could Larry O’Brien be the organizer/spokesperson who brings the message to Doug Ford?
Ken Gray : Also, Patton tells me, he would fire up a wild idea to stimulate thinking in the company. In the end, something good would come from it but not without some tension. He tried that with council and it failed.
Ken Gray : Ron:
Ken Gray : Ron: now there’s an idea.
The Voter : I think it would have been very helpful to Sutcliffe to have had a Merv Beckstead in the office across the hall from him instead of what he got and has now.
Ken Gray : Could he get a group of pols and business people to approach Ford?
Ron Benn : Merv Beckstead was in a class all his own.
Ken Gray : Too bad about Merv. Good guy.
Ron Benn : Is it possible that Larry O’Brien and Bob Chiarelli could work together on this initiative? Would they think it was a good idea?
Ken Gray : You know I covered municipal government when Merv was CAO. He kept me onside … which might have been his greatest accomplishment.
Ron Benn : He was a master at herding cats.
Ron Benn : … and Bulldogs.
Ken Gray : Are there any right thinking business people who aren’t developers. Developers are pretty happy with what they are getting at city hall. And what they are getting is everything.
The Voter : Imagine if we’d gotten Merv instead of Bruce Thom (or whatever his name was). Where could we have been now?
Ken Gray : Don’t know why Merv didn’t get that job. He was so damn good at it.
Ron Benn : Times are tough on “business street”, and will be for another year or two. Good business people know when and where to focus, and city hall is an area to avoid during tough economic times.
Ken Gray : Why is that Ron?
Ken Gray : I know they’re holding off on building because of interest rates.
The Voter : He didn’t get it because he wouldn’t commit to the time frame they were looking at. I think they were asking 5 to 7 years. Then, of course, the other guy lasted a matter of minutes. Myself, I would have hired Merv if he said he’d only stay until lunchtime but nobody listened to me in those corridors.
Ron Benn : The general economic conditions are not stable. Interest rates are stable. Finding/keeping employees is a challenge. Market share is disappearing to on-line offers (not just for retail). Costs are constantly rising, for reasons beyond the control of the business.
Peter Karwacki : Ken, have you ever thought of stsrting a video blog?
Ron Benn : In short, a competent business person knows that now is not the time to stray, to allow distractions get in the way of performing.
Ken Gray : Do you mean stick to basics until the economy improves?
Ken Gray : No Peter. Mike handles that for The Bulldog.
Ron Benn : Yes. And the economy isn’t going to get materially better (more stable) for a couple more years.
The Voter : My post seems to have evaporated. Merv didn’t get hired because he wouldn’t commit to staying as long as they wanted which was, I think, 5 to 7 years. Then the guy they went with rode off into the sunset in a matter of minutes.
Ken Gray : Actually I still see your first post.
Ken Gray : I just deleted the cache so it might appear now.
Peter Karwacki : Ok…but you have your own viewpoints
The Voter : Aah!
Ken Gray : Peter … I think I have lots of opportunities to express those viewpoints. And frankly, I don’t have any extra time. The Bulldog keeps me some busy so no, it’s not on the horizon.
Peter Karwacki : I have been thinking about starting a video blog like vince calla but interviwing people on the street
Ken Gray : Yes Ron … I think investors don’t know how long it takes to get inflation out of the economy. Remember wage and price controls. That did it in a rather draconian way.
Ken Gray : Peter:
Ken Gray : Peter:
Ken Gray : Peter:
Ken Gray : I’ll get this out. I’ve got a bad key. Peter you’re way off topic and this isn’t the time to discuss it. Get to me offline plse.
guest_7919 : Sorry…didn’t realize there was a topic…I just ser a tiny dialog box
Ken Gray : Are we ready to give it a wrap?
Ron Benn : Sounds like a plan Ken.
Ken Gray : I hear the bid once …
Ken Gray : Anyone else?
The Voter : Going twice
Ron Benn : Aloha.
The Voter : Goodnight. See you tomorrow!
Ken Gray : Sold to the Voter … whatever it is . Thank you all for participating. It does my heart good to see a solid discussion. See you tomorrow, Voter.
The Voter : Now I can check the Tim Hortons story in the sidebar!!
Ken Gray : LOL


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